Is Yvette as fake as the rest?

[Terrier]

Aled seems to think not, however I disagree, firstly if you click on THIS LINK (http://badpsychics.com/thefraudfiles/modules/news/article.php?storyid=45) there are numerous examples of Yvette appearing to mislead the viewer.

Also when was the last time there was a most haunted where nothing happened? It would seem to me that Yvette as exec producer and her husband Karl as Director have a vested interest in making things happen. Do you really think that every location they go to would have some paranormal activity? because I have a hard time believing that.

There also video out there that shows that some of most haunted was recorded in the light, it was later put through a filter to make it appear to have been done in night vision when broadcast, while this doesn't prove anything as far as Yvette and the crew faking paranormal activity, it is proof that MH wasn't always honest with the viewer.

I'm well aware that Derek Acorah was basically discredited, however according to interviews since he parted ways with the MH team Yvette thought he was a fake before then, yet she continued to work with him and never expressed any of her concerns on air, she also seems perfectly happy to make money from DVD releases of what she apparently considers to be fake paranormal activity in the series that feature Derek Acorah.

Don't get me wrong, I think she's a nice woman (and is still IMO the best interview that the Moyles show has done in the last few years when she was in studio). However I think she is primarily an entertainer and while I think she'd love to document actual paranormal activity, her first concern is to turn out a good TV show and she and her crew are willing to bend the rules to do so.

[Console]

To be fair, without all of the 'fakery' there wouldn't be a show, and if people enjoy watching it then what difference does it make if it's real or not?

[Terrier]

From an entertainment standpoint, none whatsoever. However as MH presents itself as a real investigation (and has various phone ins under that pretence) I would say they should be honest that not everything that we see is real.

[Console]

They're studying a fictitious subject, it's obviously not real, but everything you're seeing is real, it's just not paranormal.

NB: I haven't actually seen these programs, and am basing the 'realness' of the show on a few short clips I have seen.

[Aled]

I feel quite protective of lovely Yvette. She's promised me that no-one on her production team are making things up. She's promised £10,000 to a charity of my choice if she finds out someone on her team is making stuff up.

Whether that includes her or her husband I'm not sure. BTW fakery is a strong word. Knowingly lying, and hyping things up are two different things. Everyone on the show clearly hypes up the guests as the whole paranormal thing is 90% fear anyway - and that's what people like watching. It's just that last 10%...

[Aled]

Console, watch tonight. ITV2 at 9 to see what the show's about.

[Terrier]

Console regardless if paranormal activity and or ghosts are real or not is a separate debate, you dismiss it outright which is fair enough, I try to keep an open mind, but am a sceptic.

The issue I'm talking about is if Yvette and her team have faked scenes on their programs for the sake of entertainment and in doing so mislead their viewers, and having looked at a lot of stuff and watched a lot of their shows (my Finacee is a huge fan and totally disagrees with me) I really believe that she has.

It's easy to make promises that no one on the team will fake anything, but in reality all you have is her word on that, and while I can respect that you like her and want to believe her, from everything I've seen I'm just not as trusting and I think there's documented proof out there that she does fake some scenes.

[Console]

The last 10% is usually stuff that can very easily be explained if people are willing to put aside the idea of it being ghosts, or poltergeists, or telekinesis or whatever. Noises can come from insects and animals, creaking floorboards or the wind. If you think you've seen a ghost it could be anything from deja vu, to a piece of paper being blown about in the wind. We, as humans, find it easier to attribute human behaviour to these sights and sounds because it's what we're used to, but it will, more often than not, have a very simple, non-paranormal explanation.

Console, watch tonight. ITV2 at 9 to see what the show's about.

I may just do that.

[Console]

The issue I'm talking about is if Yvette and her team have faked scenes on their programs for the sake of entertainment and in doing so mislead their viewers

What sort of stuff has been faked?

[Terrier]

Most of the better clips have been removed now (wonder why?) but stuff like this...

8QIpg0JDM

If you look at the clip the people around the table are supposed to lightly place their hands on the table so that they can't move it themselves, however look at the tablecloth under Yvettes hands, you can see it crease several times from her pushing the table and creating the rocking motion herself.

One of the other (more blatant) ones of Yvette is where she appears to think she's off camera and is seen making a gasping noise and immediately says

"what was that"

as if it was made by another person/presence in the room, I'll try to find that one.

There are also other scenes where various members of the crew appear to fake objects moving using fishing wire.

Then lets not even get started on the possessions.

[Console]

Well, like I said before, without the 'fakery' there wouldn't be a show, it'd just be people walking around in the dark (which I assume is what it pretty much is anyway). So, the fact there is a show must mean that there's 'fakery' going on; now, whether this is specifically by Yvette or not is another matter, and may not be very easy to prove; she may believe that the things that are 'happening' are real.

[Terrier]

Can't see that Yvette gasping clip on youtube any more but here's a rapidshare link

http://rapidshare.com/files/17872199/Ordsall_Hall.wmv

To be fair it doesn't happen quite how I remembered, but check it out for yourself and see what you think.

My other issue with Yvette came from the Ghost Hunting with Girls Aloud thing. Without the most haunted setup she appeared a lot more brave and in control than she does with a team around her on camera, in fact she didn't seem scared at all when leading the girls around. Surely if her fear was legitimate she wouldn't be able to turn it on and off like that?, At best this shows that she exaggerates while on camera sometimes.

Anyway I don't want to flog a dead horse here, and I can see why Aled likes Yvette so much as she seems like a nice woman, I just have a different view than some on the subject.

[Riz]

Cant say i watch these type of shows, mainly because im a big wuss.

Id like to believe its all true, but theres always a level of doubt, and the only real way for everyone to be convinced is if youre actually on the show.

[Console]

If you think about it logically, it becomes very obvious that the show is rubbish. If you consider that in all the hundreds of years of recorded history we have nothing even close to definitive proof of ghosts (and other such paranormal phenomenon), yet this program manages to both find 'haunted' places and encounters ghosts every week (or however often it's on). If ghosts were that easy to find and detect they would have been proved to be real a long, long time ago.

I haven't been on the show, but I am convinced beyond an eclipse of a doubt that the show doesn't encounter ghosts.

[Terrier]

Id like to believe its all true, but theres always a level of doubt, and the only real way for everyone to be convinced is if youre actually on the show.

Maybe if you actually work on the show, I think guests can be tricked as easy as the audience can be.

[Console]

Actually, I'd say it was easier to trick a guest than it would be to trick the audience.

The audience has a completely different POV on the goings on and could easily see things that the guests wouldn't, especially if night vision or a thermal view is used. Also, the guests would have a wide range of unnerving emotions that would suppress their ability for logical thought and so are mentally hindered, more likely to be 'spooked' and are far more likely to believe what they are experiencing is the work of ghosts or other paranormal elements. The audience doesn't usually have the same handicap and are able to see other, more likely, possibilities for what they're seeing/hearing. On the other hand though, the footage that the audience is seeing can be altered to give a heightened sense of paranormal activity, but I would still think that the guests are more susceptible to being tricked.

[Aimee]

i love these types of shows, especially MH. I believe it. The Most Haunted team visited an old war museum in Conningsby near where i live and lots of paranormal things happened there - one including a crew member or someone, felt as though their hand and arm was on fire, they smelt burining flesh and in the same place a pilot burned to death following a plane crash. After that was aired,i visited the place (my dad is always going there as he loves anything to do with the war and spitfires lol) and it did feel really eery, like we weren't the only ones there. I wouldnt even let my dad leave me on my own cus i was freaked out.

I think, like riz said, the only way you know for real if there are things out there, is if you experiance it yourself. If i saw a ghost or something i would proper freak so Aled, dave, rach,scott and yvette and her team are a lot braver than me haha

[Console]

Console, watch tonight. ITV2 at 9 to see what the show's about.
I may just do that.

Ok, so I'm watching this program, and the whole 'tapping' thing is really ridiculous. If ghosts were (real and) that easy to contact then it would be very simple to set up a scientific experiment to determine that they are infact real; the very fact that only a TV program secondary channel is able 'contact' these spirits make the whole thing just ridiculous.

I also now agree that Yvette is a part of the 'fakery'. There's no way she isn't in on it; she'd have to be one of the stupidest people on the planet not to realise what is actually going on.

[Blinkie]

If you consider that in all the hundreds of years of recorded history we have nothing even close to definitive proof of ghosts (and other such paranormal phenomenon), yet this program manages to both find 'haunted' places and encounters ghosts every week (or however often it's on). If ghosts were that easy to find and detect they would have been proved to be real a long, long time ago.

I agree with you on that one, i'm watching it now (with the dingles!) and i have to say it's very convenient how the ghosts want to communicate in every room and are quite happy to throw marbles. Surely if the little girl ghost could play with marbles and other solid objects then she wouldn't be playing with imaginary toys and skipping around in a dark room?! The sayonce - hmm chairs moving?? Yvette clearly says things to trick their minds and mislead them, like 'can you feel it, it's under the table' this draws peoples fear to the hidden part of their bodies and causes them to focus all their energy there and therefore feeling the slightest of all things. I just think it is all a bit too far fetched. When they did the show with Girls Allowed, it was at the haunted place just down the road from where i am now. I went there the same week, intrigued and felt nothing. It wasn't even a scary place and it felt like i had been scammed into going just because it had been on the telly!!

[Sunny So Cal]

Console, I love reading your posts! I actually watch Most Haunted & find it highly ENTERTAINING. Some things are interesting phenomena but for the most part (as stated earlier) they can be explained away. They're investigating OLD buildings. Old buildings settle and depending on the weather the wood will expand & contract. That's natural and expected. However, having said that, if I was sitting in some creepy building at 3:00 AM and I heard a sound, I'd still squeal like a little girl, too! Yvette seems sweet & she entertains her audience. Done. :)

[Terrier]

I didn't see tonights show (I don't watch Emmerdale anyway so I don't care about the Dingles).

I take it I didn't miss much?

[postie]

i missed it too i was watching silent witness :)

[tamba]

I have had too many things happen to me so i am quite bias on this subject, but all i can see on this prog is that they are taking the pee out of the occult. If you are going to take the likes of Girls Aloud and the Emmerdale clan in, what do they expect. They scream at every opportunity so why do they bother to go when they know its haunted In saying that I cannot wait to see the Radio 1 being scared whitless :)

[bbb]

il would have to say no shes not fake while i have split veiw on the rest but to call it occult is a mistake it not its part of the naural wold and occult is a false labe to many wiccains and pagans occult is devil worsip and only deal with demons not goats tho i know many ppl dont know that much abut wicaa and pagans so no worries about being misinforedm ill explain some other time
^^

[Console]

Actually I think the word 'occult' is a synonym for paranormal; it doesn't just mean the ridiculously stupid stuff, but also covers the simply plainly stupid stuff.

[bbb]

explain the whole paranormal as it has so many meenings to me one is wat in the very old day aka the drak ages /the witch hunting days to about now its been used to desriicbe pagans there i mant diffent types and they are real faith like chrisatanay but alot older

www.wicca.com or a new one /www.wicca.org to me i view the sprit realm as normal /nautral to call it other wise is not to understand tho i am not claiming that i can explain it fully but i know some bits about the many subjects that para nromal cover from spirts to phyics to ppl useing tarao cards or a crsyatll ball i have both and when i get the spelling of each imm come back and edit though thoses u can contact the dead or use as a guide on how to live ur live the whole sprit thing ild say is more normal than most ppl think then agin we all fear wat we dont know and understand hence the whole word paranormal thanks console i did not know that is was a synonym there are ppl who can c them for real or sence them eg if u walk into aplace and it gives ur the creeps or a relly bad feeling u have maybe senced that something bad happend here or that something isnt right if u belive in the power of the mind as i do ull know all about telaply/talking to someone with ur maind and stuff it gets cast as paranromal as well^^

[Console]

'Paranormal' simple means something that is not normal; something that is not within the constraints of physical law (and quite usually, common sense). It covers pretty much everything that I would consider nonsense; ghosts, werewolves, witches, wizards, wiccas, telepathy, reincarnation, souls etc (I think you get the point).

to me i view the sprit realm as normal /nautral to call it other wise is not to understand

No, I understand it pretty well; to be a true skeptic you have to thoroughly research the subject that you're looking into, otherwise you're just a loony spouting propaganda.

tho i am not claiming that i can explain it

I'm shocked.

there are ppl who can c them for real or sence them eg if u walk into aplace and it gives ur the creeps or a relly bad feeling u have maybe senced that something bad happend here or that something isnt right

I can walk into a place and get a bad feeling about it; this doesn't mean that I have special ability, it's purely a response my brain gives to the stimuli around me; for example, if it's cold indoors, then that probably means that no-one is living at that particular accommodation, and, despite how we may already know that, it makes us feel 'alone'. Sights and sounds can easily play tricks on the mind when we are already scared. A place doesn't have to be 'haunted' and you don't have to have a 'special ability' to get a bad feeling.

if u belive in the power of the mind as i do ull know all about telaply/talking to someone with ur maind and stuff it gets cast as paranromal as well

The power of the mind? Unless our brains have built in antenna's (they don't) they I fail to see how they would either receive or transmit signals, and more to the point, why the hell would we have evolved that ability? There is no evolutionary advantage to having any sort of psychic or telepathic ability (especially without the instinct to use it); it would have to have been one hell of a mutation to cause not only the ability to receive other peoples brainwaves (NB: There is no evidence what-so-ever that brainwaves are transmitted, the only thing our brains give off is heat), but to send them as well.

By the way, if anyone thinks about bringing up that 'only 10% of our brains are used' nonsense, can you please, please check your source on that particular quote.

[bbb]

[QUOTE=Console;2732]'Paranormal' simple means something that is not normal; something that is not within the constraints of physical law (and quite usually, common sense). It covers pretty much everything that I would consider nonsense; ghosts, werewolves, witches, wizards, wiccas, telepathy, reincarnation, souls etc (I think you get the point).


while u do raise some good points u will be shocked to know i diaggre wicca is real its a faith and they wroship a god and goddness as if u lokk on www.wicca.com u will see its real as for the treams witches and wizards thy were christains treams to get ppl to turn way from the old ways to make it seem evil now wiccains is the ture name of any one who particies wicca there is tons of books on it by sliverravenwolf thats her name she usees in her coven and books while it also tell u her real name as well there is also a church and scholl of wicca in the usa ran by gavien and yuovne forst there site is www.wicca.org i know i wont change ur mind on any of this but i am steing some facts telepathy can not be proven or dismissed same with other powers of the mind witch btw ive tired and i have done telepatic link with my sister i know whne shes been in a fight even before i speak to her face to face and she has told me shes heard my voice in her heard shes a chriatin who thinks all this is balls so for here to say that was huge and i have a link with one of my best mates evry she dindt belive so she let me try to make a link then i asked her to bring in a cd case witch she forgot i was walking to wrok with her this day and nvr said anything about the cd case but i was thinking i bet shes forgot it then she said to me i heard u saying that i bet shes forgot the cd case so she went back and got it i laso have tired pryo(the ablit to put a small flame out and relit it with ur mind) no i cant spell have the stuff i was going to put down so im leaving all that out but if i was face to face with someone i could explain more and even show them howevr even if i was to make a video of puting out the flame u could jst say i blew it out u would prob say the same if u were there in the same room but if u care to take a look at the sites u will get a diffent view point and u cant disprove most of it has then u deam it paranromal i do enjoy sicine was one of my fav subjects in school and i was a A student it it as am sure u were as well so i look at things from both points of view but like most ppl that have faith in something i tedn to go more infavour of faith and i do beloive in past lifes and i have had a past life expince i was on hoildy wiith my mum my wee bro we went to c my aunt in london she took us to the roman ruins called verlinam think thats how u spell it its now called st albans and before we even got into the roman runis part i was able to say were evrything was and how the town was drestryed and all that be 4 we eeven came within site of the welcome centr all of a suden on the way the i bluerted out the town name my aunt was takeing me there for a supise as i have alwys been fasanited with all things roman and no one told me were we were going and there was no sings saying the roman name so if theres no such thing as past lifes how come a got all that right tho this looks like me saying bullshit or lies i can asure its not i dont lie about anything like this and i love to have debates about wicca and christainy and others yes u hardly know me to take my word on this same goes both ways well i hope i have opened ur mind a bit more tho i know i cant change ur point of view and im not trying to jst want to show some facts once agin the sites to help show u are www.wicca.com

and www.wicca.org

those are jst a few of many also i recamound any who would like to know more to read up on it search wicca on amazon and u willl get loads of books up the view i reacmond the most are silveravenwolfs and soct coningham and gavin and yuovone forst soz not good at there names and my wiccain name if firehawk its this cause fire is my brith elemnet my brtih signis aires i will name ur elemnts if u all would like to know wat star sign
goes with wat element we are the power we are the people we are the change merry meet and merry part until we merry meet again
x blessed b

[bbb]

or and one more link and thing to say wicca useing nature and yes spells and the power of the mind and here a more dirent likn all the best and ahhpy reading all http://www.wicca.com/celtic/wicca/wicca0.htm
bleesed be

[Console]

u will be shocked to know i diaggre wicca is real its a faith and they wroship a god and goddness

No, I wouldn't be shocked. As I said, I've researched a great deal of religions and paranormal 'events', and 'Wicca' is only as real as any other religion is. As for the religion, I think it has roots in paganism and (from memory, so this may be wrong) believe in the four elements, Earth, Fire, Wind, Water and Heart (Oops, one too many). If they do believe in the four elements then that should be enough to convince anyone that it's just nonsense.

telepathy can not be proven or dismissed same with other powers of the mind

While it extremely hard to disprove something (it's almost an impossibility) it is extremely easy to prove something, and the fact that so called 'mind powers' haven't been proved, and don't even have any scientific basis should be a strong indication that they're just not real. In this day and age, I would say we're closer to disproving 'mind powers' than proving them.

i have done telepatic link with my sister i know whne shes been in a fight even before i speak to her face to face and she has told me shes heard my voice in her heard

While that sounds 'amazing' the first is just cold-reading, many people can do this, and quite a few do it subconsciously; many of us do it do some degree, picking up little tell-tale signs of a persons state-of-mind or recent activity. If you're ever read the Sherlock Holmes books (fabulous by the way) then you'll get an idea of how much can be learnt from so little.

As for her hearing your voice, well, what did she hear? Were you deliberately transmitting your voice, or was it passive? People 'hear' voices all of the time, a lot of the time they're actual people talking to them, but some of the time it's a recording (actually, this is probably more likely than a normal person now-a-days), or they're imagination. For her to say to you that she heard your voice, and then you to tell me that, it's third hand information, she could have been imagining it, heard an actual voice (it could have sounded like yours) or just have been lying. This is a perfect example of why it's so hard to disprove this stuff, anyone can say that they've had some telepathic link, or they've moved stuff with they're minds and to disprove it every single crackpot who believes that they have a special power has to be checked out. It should be interesting though that not a single person, out of the millions of claims of super-human abilities, has ever been found to be real. I know this is, at best, a proof by exhaustion, that will probably never happen, but the sheer amount of disproof should be enough to convince the average person that this stuff just isn't true, and I that many people do find it to be enough; I just wish more did.

i have a link with one of my best mates evry she dindt belive so she let me try to make a link then i asked her to bring in a cd case witch she forgot i was walking to wrok with her this day and nvr said anything about the cd case but i was thinking i bet shes forgot it then she said to me i heard u saying that i bet shes forgot the cd case so she went back and got it

Again, this is third hand information at best, and she may not have heard your voice, she may have just remembered. As for you thinking that she had forgotten this case, well, the fact it hadn't been mentioned was probably enough of an indication that she had, indeed, forgotten.

i laso have tired pryo(the ablit to put a small flame out and relit it with ur mind

It's called a psychokinesis, and as a Wicca (assuming that you are one) you, of course, believe that you can do this.

like most ppl that have faith in something i tedn to go more infavour of faith

Faith is to believe in something without any reason, and usually with evidence opposing that particular view. It is irrational and ridiculous. Having that as a default position is very odd, and I can't belief that, despite you've just claimed it, it's actually true.

i do beloive in past lifes and i have had a past life expince i was on hoildy wiith my mum my wee bro we went to c my aunt in london she took us to the roman ruins called verlinam think thats how u spell it its now called st albans and before we even got into the roman runis part i was able to say were evrything was and how the town was drestryed and all that be 4 we eeven came within site of the welcome centr all of a suden on the way the i bluerted out the town name my aunt was takeing me there for a supise as i have alwys been fasanited with all things roman and no one told me were we were going and there was no sings saying the roman name so if theres no such thing as past lifes how come a got all that right

You know, it's a real pain in the arse trying to disprove this stuff, I could say that I once saw a goldfish juggling (that would be cool, wouldn't it) and you wouldn't be able to disprove it anymore than I could disprove your 'past lives'. I could say that I once saw a hippo having a chat, in French, to a penguin which was eating some jam on toast, would you be able to disprove that? I can come up with such a stream of nonsense that is so obviously untrue to anyone that hears it that you must think that you can disprove it, well I invite you to go ahead and when you can't, apply the same situation to what you've just said.

well i hope i have opened ur mind

My mind is open enough as it is, thank you.

its this cause fire is my brith elemnet my brtih signis aires i will name ur elemnts if u all would like to know wat star sign
goes with wat element we are the power we are the people we are the change merry meet and merry part until we merry meet again

Dear God, I'd like to file to file a bug report...

[bbb]

agin good point i would be clad to add more to but i wont i do love a good dbate and thourg ur post ive think ive goten to know one of ur points of view well i guess each to there we both semm to have takne over this thred with long intesting posts well i wish i could show u how easy to put ona flame on a insencestick without blowing on it or shakeing it but as i live is belfast and u were u live i do have more to say but i think im jst going to be passive on this and break it down to 2 things
those who belive in a afterlife amoung others

those who dont

each to there own oh and the we are the power bit that aslo said merry meet and merry part util we meery meet agin wasnt mnet for here was ment for the other site i was on as a goobye cya later soll ill porb edit it out atlest u are more open minded than most^_^ cya later

[Terrier]

You know what I believe in? Proof reading. I'm not someone that will point out every little spelling error (because lord knows I make plenty) but at least try!

Anyway I'm not denying the existence of ghosts or whatever outright, although I am a sceptic. My opinion that I'm trying to get over here is that Yvette is knowingly involved in faking scenes or events in Most Haunted and her new ITV shows.

[Sunny So Cal]

I'd LOVE to see a goldfish juggling NEXT TO a hippo having a chat in French with a penguin who was eating some jam on toast!!

[bbb]

i reckon she wasnt even if she knew derak was fakeing some of it but u can nvr turst rummours so thats all ill say^_^

[bbb]

oh and one more thing console yes u right about beliveing in elemnet but we dont worshipthem we use them in are workings and they are fire earth air water and Spirit as repasent in the pentagam and the pentacle my pics that im useing atm

[Console]

I never said you worshiped them, and I was actually joking when I mentioned 'Heart' as being the fifth element (we all know it's Leeloo anyway), although if anyone can tell me why I said heart I'll give you a virtual cookie.

[bbb]

maybe u were doing research on the 4 chambers of the heart and blodd flow

and no worries i jst looked back i can be a bit blind to some words and my mistakes but its part of what i have

[Console]

maybe u were doing research on the 4 chambers of the heart and blodd flow

Oh, so far off; feel free to try again though.

[bbb]

maybe u were have a heart to heart with someone:P or u were thinking of who u love or u were jst messing other than those i have no idea

[Console]

maybe u were have a heart to heart with someone:P or u were thinking of who u love or u were jst messing other than those i have no idea

No, it's something specific to 'Earth, Fire, Wind, Water'.

[bbb]

there is a book called earth fire wind and water and i think heart is in the name there is also a movie and one more move called the caft thats almost got it bright about wicca same as chamed the tv progame has it almost right and on one of the eipisodes theyb say earth air fire wather heart air or wind they say cant rember witch one

[Console]

Nope, although much closer; think along the lines of TV programmes.

[bbb]

only tv ones i can think of is chamed and bewitched unless its a tv progame about plants theres that much i watch and yet a lot i forget or put awy in the back of my mind that it take baout a year to rember so i give up guesing

[Harriii]

i love most haunted, i dont care if some people think its fake its entertaining and its cool to believe that there is something out ther... it makes me think that my nan is around me looking out for me even if she isnt alive anymore

[Terrier]

Forgot about this thread.

Another one to watch out for (this was actually pointed out to me by my better half who loves MH) If you watch the Halloween episode from this year just before Stewart punches Karl, Yvette appears to randomly be tapping on a cabinet door with her foot. Seems a little odd doesn't it? to be standing around talking and then to stick your foot out and randomly knock on a cabinet door? The cynic in me thinks this was probably a signal to go for Stewart.

Don't know if any of the rest of you picked up on that and had any thoughts on it.

[Harriii]

you lot are looking too much into this stuff!! so what if it is fake?! some people like to belive in the paranormal. let them believe...

:icon_mrgreen:

[Terrier]

Because they make money (and a fair amount of it) on the basis that it's all real. I would be the same with anything else I thought was a con.

Besides we're just talking about it on a forum, not exactly picketing Karl and Yvettes house.

[Console]

some people like to belive in the paranormal. let them believe...

Some people like to hurt themselves, it doesn't mean the rest of society should let them do it; ignorance is generally something that is quite easy to solve.

[bbb]

Some people like to hurt themselves, it doesn't mean the rest of society should let them do it; ignorance is generally something that is quite easy to solve.

ppl need to belive in something be it trying to slove everything or in god/gods or the para nromal or a belife in no god/gods

i like to try and prove things but i also go by faith i dont belife we were made in a day or seven deping on ur faith as most of us know for a fact that we evloed over millons of years so i go by that in my line of work i always come home with cuts all over me from the cats and dogs and ppl aacuse me of self harming <,> that does my head in

[Q]

This is by far my favourite thread!

[Console]

ppl need to belive in something be it trying to slove everything or in god/gods or the para nromal or a belife in no god/gods

By definition, there is an element of belief in all information you use, the world around us may very well be the construct of a computer; it is a belief that the world, and indeed universe, around us is real, or at least has consistent rules that we can use to define the world/universe around us. There is, however, a difference in the belief in the existence of, say, a potato, and the existence of a God (or gods). The belief of a potato existing stems from our experiences of potatoes, whether they be chipped, mashed, boiled or otherwise. We have seen, smelt, tasted, touched and (possibly) heard potatoes; God and ghosts (and other such paranormal/mythical entities) haven't been seen, smelt, tasted, touched or heard, whether they be chipped, mashed, boiled or otherwise. This lack of experience and evidence does make you wonder why, in this day and age, people still believe in such stuff, well there are numerous reasons, including that they 'just want to believe', which basically means that they feel the universe would be a boring place without them (with isn't really a proper reason) and false experiences based on the brain anthropomorphising things it can't quite comprehend.

i like to try and prove things but i also go by faith

Faith, being belief without reason or evidence, is one of the oddest phenomenon on the planet. It is largely due to the brain's inability to handle mis-information though. The human brain evolved to take on board information, but hasn't really evolved the function to subconsciously question it (it can, but not really efficiently or reliably); this is why we as humans are so susceptible to lies and con's. It will usually take overwhelming evidence for people to question (even flaky/dodgy) information that they received at an earlier date, especially if it was much earlier, like in their childhood. So, when children learn of Jesus, and God (just like when they learn about Father Christmas/Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny) they accept it; they don't have any evidence to the contrary, and it's usually someone that they trust telling them.

An example of the brain being dumb would be when you've watched a 'scary' film, like a film where there's a creature hiding under the bed or something, after you've finished watching the film, and you're left alone, in the dark, you can feel scared, not because you're alone, or in the dark, but because your brain is having a hard-time disregarding the information it received from the film; it believes that there is a monster under the bed. Obviously, this fear will wear off after a while as your common sense should gently nudge your subconscious, telling it that it wasn't real.

Unfortunately though, common sense can only work from experience; it 'knew' that the film was fiction, a fantasy. When it comes to things like ghosts, God, the Easter Bunny etc, it doesn't generally know enough to realise that it's just as imaginary.

Essentially, my point is that 'going by faith' is not really a good thing; as a starting point it is ok, but then you're generally trying to disprove something that may be impossible to disprove instead of trying to prove something that may actually be possible to prove.

[Q]

I was touched by a ghost. He told me to keep it a secret though.

[postie]

I'm never that lucky

[tamba]

I do believe that there is something out there other than us. I have had to many experiences to say otherwise.

[Q]

There are plenty of things out there other than us. I can think of three for an example... sheep, cars, and batteries. :-)

[tamba]

There are plenty of things out there other than us. I can think of three for an example... sheep, cars, and batteries. :-)

Haha.....:025:

[bbb]

well i have to say one of the resons many ppl chose to belive in a afterlife is pretty much down to fear in never seeing the loved ones you have lost well al lest in my case i find the thoght of when u die that its nothing else that woorrys the hell out of me ive lost many loved ones and it upstes me so much thinking that i will never see them gain so thats why i chose to belive in the aftelife

[Console]

well i have to say one of the resons many ppl chose to belive in a afterlife is pretty much down to fear in never seeing the loved ones you have lost

Unfortunately, a lot of irrational beliefs are born out of this kind of emotional nonsense.

well al lest in my case i find the thoght of when u die that its nothing else that woorrys the hell out of me

If there is nothing after you die, what is there to worry about? By definition, it has to be 'nothing'.

ive lost many loved ones and it upstes me so much thinking that i will never see them gain so thats why i chose to belive in the aftelife

I don't mean to offend you in any way, but that is really stupid. Believing something, because you don't like alternative is not reason enough to believe in something; it's no proof at all. Unfortunately though, a lot of people tend to share this exact point of view; it actually saddens me sometimes to think that people are still so susceptible to this emotion-lead way of thinking that perpetuates the idea of God, the afterlife, ghosts and other such nonsensical entities.

[bbb]

dont worry at lest u say what u think about that person view or about spelling to there face i value ur input and points of view on subjects i like

like this one but i do have other reasons as i sated a while pack and in ther thread label wicca as well but im not sure it may sound stuipd but many of us fell that there has to be more to life than just your bron u die the end its hard to explain the feeling that ther has to be more than that it sounds relly stupid i know

[Console]

im not sure it may sound stuipd but many of us fell that there has to be more to life than just your bron u die the end its hard to explain the feeling that ther has to be more than that it sounds relly stupid i know

Well, it's like you said earlier, there's the fear of death. That fear alone would count for most of the feelings towards the afterlife, but there's also things we see everyday. We, as humans, consider ourselves better than other animals, why? Because we can communicate efficiently, we can think and process information with far greater detail and accuracy, and we are self-aware (depending on your interpretation of the term of course). This self-awareness, or consciousness, brought about the idea of a soul, an immortal essence forever traveling through-out the universe, sometimes in a body, sometimes in another plane-of-existence. The idea of there being a soul is strengthened to a lot of people that don't fully understand how the brain works (and how it's the numerous electrical and chemical inputs that determine our actions) because we appear to be able to choose; to choose between good and bad actions, to choose between apple and tomatoes. There is certainly no part of the brain that can literally make a choice (it's an impossible scenario under current and pretty much any consistent set of laws of physics), so, to most people, the obvious answer becomes that there must be a soul, and mythical object that can transcend the laws of physics to arrive at a plane where making a choice is a possibility. Such a soul, that can break the laws of physics would also (with great probability) be able to last for eternity. Obviously, most of this reasoning happens on a subconscious level to some people; others are just indoctrinated to believe in a soul, and (as I said above) can't get rid of the misinformation they have been given.

The above is very complicated, and very convoluted; it is far, far simpler to just believe that we don't infact have a soul, that we don't have an afterlife, and that we can't even make a choice. It may not be a nice thing to believe, but it is far closer to the truth.