Censoring of Fairytale in New York... [Archive]

Harry_Bullocks

17-12-2007, 12:40 PM

Would like to hear peoples views on the "bleeping" of the "Fa*****" word in the song by the BBC.

My view has changed in the past week, I never thought of it as being offensive, infact have never really thought about it at all and used the word myself, both in conversation and in various posts around a few boards on the net. Any time I have used it has been meant in a comedic, not trying to upset anyone especially my very good friend whom I started school with over 30 years ago, who is homosexual.

Last week, while listening to my other radio passion, "The Stern Show" George Takei the Star Trek/Heroes guy who sits in for the week a few times a year had been in the week before, and as a "bit" the comedian/actor on the show Artie Lange who uses the word frequently "secretely" came out to him while being recorded without George's knowledge.

Anyway, long story short, George got in touch with Artie last week saying he had got loads of emails from various people who were commending them for showing how difficult it could be for someone to come out. George calls it the "F Word" and finds it offensive and degrading so challenged Artie to do a public service announcement and that every time he uses it either on the show or in any of his stand up gigs he has to pay $100 to a gay charity.

I've promised my mate that I won't use it again either, although he never got upset about me saying it and says he was never offended. So I feel it's right that it has been bleeped although it does detract from the listening pleasure of the greatest Christmas song ever.

Terrier

17-12-2007, 02:41 PM

For some reason it makes me think of this....

8I-z7uzFRqU

postie

17-12-2007, 02:54 PM

it has many meanings but for the song I'm sure it was not meant in the same context as people might think it had but i can see why its was taken out just in case it does offend but it does kinda ruin songs now when stuff keeps getting taken away in case it offends someone

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/******

gbm

17-12-2007, 06:53 PM

Haha, I'm liking that video Terrier,

and I noticed the censoring on the song the other day but didnt really think much of it, if they decide to censor something then chances are they are covering their back or responding to feedback from listeners - which kind of means that theres not much that can be done about it, I can see that some people may be offended but I can also understand how it may go a bit over the top if censoring like this is done on everything - just something that life has in store I guess... Merry Christmas though :)

tamba

17-12-2007, 08:42 PM

I cannot work out what the missing letter's are.. honestly. I did hear this today and could not reconize the word then !

Can you fill in a couple of extra letter please.
II'm having a thick day today.

I hope this song make's it to no. 1 for christmas, I love it.

postie

17-12-2007, 09:11 PM

****** (also a meat product too)

postie

17-12-2007, 09:11 PM

wow automatic censor

Kate

17-12-2007, 09:19 PM

The word is fag got (how can anyone not know that?), and personally I think it's ridiculous that they've censored it. Political correctness is all well and good, but common sense needs to be brought into the equation too. Blanking out words in well known and loved songs is plain stupid in my book.

postie

18-12-2007, 06:12 AM

lol every time i typed that word on here ****** see it gets censored automatically

and yes i agree kate it ruins songs when words keep getting bleeped out

Aled

18-12-2007, 06:39 AM

Interestingly, when the forum was set up in the summer I didn't put many words into the banned words list. I think I only put 3 or 4 that word was one of them though as I personally find it really harsh and offensive.

I've never heard someone call me that in a nice way - it's always intended offensively.

BTW fight the urge to find out what swear words are banned please.

Merry Christmas

Gav

18-12-2007, 07:27 AM

I’m not someone who takes offence easily but I agree with Aled in so much as the F word is one of the few names I won’t tolerate being called.
I tend to turn a blind eye to many names if no true offence is intended but in my experience the F word is always meant in a hurtful way. I believe the BBC was right to censor the word rather than not play a great Christmas song.
XXX

tamba

18-12-2007, 07:42 AM

tamba

18-12-2007, 07:44 AM

lol every time i typed that word on here ****** see it gets censored automatically

and yes i agree kate it ruins songs when words keep getting bleeped out

I typed s****** in another post and that got blocked, did not think that was offensive !!

Laughter is good.

dgellis0907

18-12-2007, 11:34 AM

postie

18-12-2007, 01:51 PM

oh i agree Aled the word is offensive when used in conversations or as an aggressive nature but to ban words out of songs that have been played for years is getting a tad too much
and lets face it there is much worse songs that get played that could cause more offense than others and don't get bleeped

Gav

18-12-2007, 02:10 PM

I guess it’s all down to personal experience and opinion over which words are offensive and which ones aren’t. I can understand someone who’s black being offended at being called the N word and wouldn’t like the BBC to use it despite the fact that I wouldn’t find it offensive to me. I therefore don’t use it. As for the word not being homophobic slur, I find it hard to believe in this context it means “an English pork based delicacy”! Just because it’s in a Christmas song for the past 20 years doesn’t make it any nicer.
We all have different words we don’t like for whatever reason and I personally don’t like this one, but to suggest I stop listening to Radio 1 because I don’t like the word ******........ Now that is too far!
I shall now look forward to reading all the horrified letters from all the “bedridden elderly promiscuous addicts”. They can fight their own battles!
XXX

Aled

18-12-2007, 02:17 PM

Personally i think its a step too far...
I mean its a christmas song that has been around for 20 years now and is a favourite. just look at the Itunes chart to see that.
I dont view it as a homophobic slur in the context of this song. and anyone who does get offended has quite enough time to change stations.
i mean 3 lines preceding the offending word is: "Youre an old slut on junk, Lying there almost dead on a drip in that bed"
thats a bit more graphic in my opinion
and its not even like this is the only song in the world which has such words in it.

Worse has been, is being, and will continue to be played out on radio 1...

I don't think worse will continue to be played on Radio 1. Radio 1 would never knowingly play something offensive out - especially in daytime radio 1 and especially during a breakfast show.

The song is a classic. FACT. The song has been around for 20 years. FACT. But just because the words may not have been as offensive 20- years ago when it was recorded doesn't mean it will never become offensive.

I remember when I joined Radio 1 Lenny Henry left a voice message on one of the producer's phone saying that he objected to the use of the "N word" in a song we had on our playlist. We discussed and decided it was fine to play it. That was only around 8 years ago!!! Nowadays could you IMAGINE us playing a song with the word in it? Even if it had been recored in a time when it wasn't that offensive? Not a chance.

It is a great song, and should be played on Radio 1. I am thoroughly proud that Radio 1 have been progressive in the use of a word (that I personally find offensive). Some papers are (wrongly) saying we're the only radio station to do it - even if that was true - good. So it should. We should lead and not follow.

For those doing an online poll on the issue - what a waste of time! Who's going to be offended? Not straight people. And considering that 90 - 93% of the population are not gay of course a huge percentage of the population are not going to understand.

Interestingly MTV have also muted the word - and other video channels had done it last year - but to no fuss. Evidence show that the younger generation are more sensitive to homophobia and racial prejudice than older ones who are more sensitive to religious prejudists. In that light even more reason for the UK's young BBC radio station to take the lead.

Aled

18-12-2007, 02:18 PM

don't get bleeped

Can i right this wrong perception that we've bleeped it - we haven't. It's muted. We don't draw attention to the word not being there at all.

dgellis0907

18-12-2007, 02:43 PM

Hey guys
Can i apologise for my previous post.
i guess i havent quite worded my opinion correctly or appropriately

to suggest I stop listening to Radio 1 because I don’t like the word ******........ Now that is too far!

I didnt mean to suggest anyone with a problem with the content of a song should boycott any station playing the tune in question.
Sorry for bad wording!

dgellis0907

18-12-2007, 03:06 PM

I don't think worse will continue to be played on Radio 1. Radio 1 would never knowingly play something offensive out - especially in daytime radio 1 and especially during a breakfast show.

i completely understand and respect that never would something that could be interpreted as intending to be offensive be played out on air especially not at peak time!
but as for playing worse...there will be some crimes against musical law in everyones opinion that will be played on every radio station!!:icon_lol:

your example is very good at showing that in an everchanging, maturing world, we will forever be in a circle of the same style of controversys.

For those doing an online poll on the issue - what a waste of time! Who's going to be offended? Not straight people. And considering that 90 - 93% of the population are not gay of course a huge percentage of the population are not going to understand.

I am a proud member of the 7-10% of the country who are not straight.

i can completely understand how bisexuals and homosexuals are offended by this word.
i for one would immediatly let anyone who used that term in a derigotory fashion and personal attack in my company, how unnacceptable it is.

i dont view the song as an attack or realistic. it is mearly in my opinion 2 characters telling a 'fairytail'

I again would like to appologise for any offence or anger caused by my either ignorence or badly written postings.
Would like to hear peoples views on the "bleeping" of the "Fa*****" word in the song by the BBC.
the whole tread was based on opinions and views. this is and was only from my personal perspective

Kate

18-12-2007, 03:07 PM

I liked the irony of Newsbeat using the offending word in their story about the whole issue today. So even though Radio 1 have censored the word in the song, there was no problem with it being said every time the news was on. I still can't believe they've done it. What's changed between this year and last year? Why was it fine to play the song in full last Christmas, but not this one? I think whether a word is offensive or not is down to the context it's used in.

And as Kirsty MacColl's mother said on the news today, the people who use the word in 'Fairytale of New York' are characters and that's the way they speak. Things like this usually wash over me as I tend not to care whether words are taken out of songs or not, but for some reason this has really annoyed me. It sounded to me like Chris disagreed with Radio 1's decision when he mentioned it yesterday. I certainly can't see the sense in it.

KITTreplica

18-12-2007, 03:32 PM

simply if a word is offensive to an person or makes them feel uncomfortalble yes it should be removed

just after all this time i dont understand why

Harry_Bullocks

18-12-2007, 03:45 PM

As Aled has said above, the song has been around for 20 years and being almost 40 it was never perceived as being offensive to my generation, along with the N word. It had never even crossed my mind that it would cause offense.

I wholeheartedly apologise to anyone on any boards where I could have used the term that has read it as an attack on their sexuality or as an attack on them directly.

Harrison

18-12-2007, 03:51 PM

All it takes is a few complaints from individuals and a whole full scale investigation would be started. I agree that the song is a classic and it's a shame that as a society we have to be constantly aware of what we broadcast but it's a fact that we are made to be aware of this. I found it somewhat ironic it appeared on the most popular SMS messages received. Will it now have a universal ban accross the BBC establishment?

Kate

18-12-2007, 04:32 PM

I've just realised that the song isn't being censored across the BBC, with stations like Radio 2 continuing to play the full version. Now it makes even less sense.

Harrison

18-12-2007, 04:49 PM

Anyway, BBC has backed down and will now play the uncut version on Radio1.
Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7150693.stm

Kate

18-12-2007, 04:54 PM

It's good to hear that common sense has prevailed. It really was a nonsensical decision to make, so I'm glad it blew up in the faces of whatever corporate suits made it and they had to back down in the end.

bbb

18-12-2007, 04:54 PM

if someone called me that then yes i would take offence but in this song i dont at the end of the day a songs a song i would bleep out the n word as a lot of people take offence to that while others take offence to being called afro-british or amariiacn or a closer to home exsample in my case would be

british-irsh instead of northren irish amoung others

but my view is simple peole now adays take offence to alot of words that wernt offence but are now part of the reson could be the fact that there are used less and therefore became less comon to hear and so now when people hear words such as the n word they take offence mostly the younger genarateion 1980-2000 that age group

i also dont see the poiunt in bleeping/ muteing it out as its been played so much i dont think people notice or take offenice to it in the song

that being said if some one called me that in a convo a would take offence then im prourd to be inculced in the 7-10% that are gay/bi
in the song i dont find it offeice unless it was directed to be eg all f must die then i would find it offenice if the song was like that
i dont wish to offend anyone just trying t put my view down

people need to lighten up mysefl inculed

tamba

18-12-2007, 05:50 PM

Let's hope this is the end to more stupid PC c@@p. To me this is now getting totally out of hand.

And I hope it get's to number 1 this Christmas instead of the X Factor winner.

Now there's another controversy.

18-12-2007, 06:37 PM

It is dumb to remove the word because the BBC are afraid it may offend some people. Although I would find the word offensive if someone called me it, I dont think its offensive in the song. If anything I see it as putting more barriers up between straight and gay people.

Straight people are becoming afraid of talking to/about gay people, for fear of offending them. Can you imagine at a christmas party with your friends or work colleagues and the song came on, a song that is played every year and that everyone enjoys and sings to. Now Radio 1 have muted the word people who may ordinarily of sang away without fear of offending anyone could start to question if they can sing it. They sing it at their party and carefully look around incase they may have offended someone in the room, and people look at them as though they have done something incredibly bad or rude. Idiotic decision.

I'm a gayer, and I for one dont mind it. I'm glad that the decision to now play it in full was made.

simply if a word is offensive to an person or makes them feel uncomfortalble yes it should be removed

I hope they never, ever, play a song that have the words 'Bleeding Love' as I find it incredibly offensive. :p

Kate

18-12-2007, 10:53 PM

Radio 1 would never knowingly play something offensive out.

And yet they play that god awful Soldier Boy record, and worse.

It is a great song, and should be played on Radio 1. I am thoroughly proud that Radio 1 have been progressive in the use of a word (that I personally find offensive). Some papers are (wrongly) saying we're the only radio station to do it - even if that was true - good. So it should. We should lead and not follow.

You obviously felt it was a good decision to censor the song, so does that mean that you're disappointed with the u-turn?

Mitchell

19-12-2007, 12:29 AM

It's always about context in these situations. I use the word "fag" a lot but never in a derogatory manner. I am usually saying it in jest to straight friends or to gay friends who are ok with it (I never just dive in and call a friend a fag without knowing if it'll offend them or not). I think that in a jokey manner, it's ok. Like when black people use the "n" word. I'm perfectly fine with hearing anyone say the word as long as it's not meant with intent to hurt or offend.

In this instance, whilst I applaud BBC for not taking the situation likely, I think there is no harm in the "F" word being left in the song because it is not meant as an attack on gay people and it kickstarts a dangerous trend where more and more stuff will be censored until we have nothing left that we're allowed to say. Plus, personally I hate minority rights groups. I loathe their hypocritical stance on wanting equality but segregating themselves further. So anything that takes a firm stance against them (Stonewall, I'm looking at you) makes me happy. I'd rather we concentrate on what is best for us as human beings, one and the same, rather than what might offend blacks or jews or gays or females or black jewish gay females.

Gav

19-12-2007, 01:30 PM

postie

19-12-2007, 02:24 PM

The bottom line of this whole issue is that the BBC has condoned calling people a ******, better still if you can do it to a catchy little tune at Christmas. I now look forward to Fearne & Reggie releasing “Have yourself a merry little cock-sucking Christmas” for this years Christmas number 1.
Merry Christmas Auntie
XXX

i disagree with that comment a song that's been played on radio 1 for years has all of a sudden become offencive to people if it was that bad then it would of been banned from day 1
if you want to go down that road then why not ban white Christmas as it may offend white people like we cant say black boards anymore or black coffee or the song brown girl in the rain which got banned cause of the reference to the colour
why not ban i saw mommy kissing Santa Claus implying they mom is sleeping around with random blokes in Santa costumes

anyway i applaud the BBC for coming to they senses and letting that word back in

Console

19-12-2007, 02:59 PM

why not ban i saw mommy kissing Santa Claus implying they mom is sleeping around with random blokes in Santa costumes

Doesn't the song (strongly) imply that it's the mom's husband that is in a Santa Claus comstume?

Terrier

19-12-2007, 03:00 PM

I think there's a certain irony that by censoring a word in a song for fear of offending listeners, Radio 1 actually ended up broadcasting the word in question many more times than it otherwise would have, because of reporting on it in the news.

It's a funny old world.

Console

19-12-2007, 03:35 PM

Gav

19-12-2007, 04:28 PM

i disagree with that comment a song that's been played on radio 1 for years has all of a sudden become offencive to people if it was that bad then it would of been banned from day 1
if you want to go down that road then why not ban white Christmas as it may offend white people like we cant say black boards anymore or black coffee or the song brown girl in the rain which got banned cause of the reference to the colour
why not ban i saw mommy kissing Santa Claus implying they mom is sleeping around with random blokes in Santa costumes

anyway i applaud the BBC for coming to they senses and letting that word back in
I wouldn’t go down that route at all and I don’t usually bother with PC in any way but these examples are meant in a non offensive way. In this song however, being called a ****** is used as an insult. It places being gay alongside maggot, slut and scumbag! There is a very distinct difference and it is nothing to do with being PC. It’s about using being gay as a stick to beat people with or as an insult, gay or not. If people wish to use the word in their own conversation then fine, I might not like it but that’s free speech for you. But in broadcasting there is a higher responsibility. In my opinion the BBC initially had the right idea as it was unobtrusive and still allowed the broadcast of a classic song. It’s a shame it has all been blown out of proportion.

postie

19-12-2007, 05:09 PM

But i don't think that the said word was used out of context as in was not used as a gay insult if it had of been then i would strongly agree that the word should be bleeped out
its only been blown out of proportion cause its a classic song and its been playing the full version until this year which is very silly

Terrier

19-12-2007, 07:10 PM

Isn't there a difference in context though?

If I was to say the following: -

"The word 'git' means a person that is silly, incompetent, stupid, annoying, and/or childish."

...then that is perfectly acceptable, but I if was to say: -

"Terrier is a complete git!"

...then there could be cause for offence. Reporting on a word is very different to using it in a derogatory way.

Oh I know it isn't offensive in the context it's used, but I think it's ironic that taking the word out of a song, resulted in it actually broadcast more than it otherwise would have been.

Gav

19-12-2007, 08:03 PM

True. But it does raise the question what the word does mean in this context?
XXX

Mitchell

20-12-2007, 03:16 PM

It places being gay alongside maggot, slut and scumbag!
What if prostitutes around the country start complaining about the word "slut"? What if Slipknot fans start complaining about the word "maggot"? What if asshole guys across the country start complaining about "scumbag"?

Call me threatened or thoughtless, but sometimes I feel really alienated as a straight man from gay people BECAUSE of the promotion of gay rights and certain attitudes on things where a guy like Graham Norton can go on TV and insinuate "yeah, I suck dick lol" but yet a STORY (which is what this song is) can't say the word "******" in case it offends gay people. One step forward, two steps back. People don't realise that by alienating that word, it just makes it more of a taboo and eventually we're going to be inundated with words we can't say and our vocab will be even more limited than todays society dictates. Why not take a leaf from guys like Howard Stern and bring it right to the forefront of vocab and destroy all negative connotations of it so that no one can use it anymore? I've never used the words "fag" or "n*gger" negatively (well ok, once, but it was in jest and for a petty reason) because I've been exposed to those words and no longer view it as something that should be used to offend people and segregate communities.

Stonewall don't realise that by pulling the victim card all the time, they're going to end up creating civil war because those of us straight people who actually just want to get on with gay people (and black people and asian people and Greeks and the Polish) without having it thrust in our faces that we suddenly can't offend them as a community (rather than as individuals, which is what is REALLY important) are suddenly going to become sick and tired of it. And God knows we don't need to fuel those idiots at the BNP any further. Just as much as I hate racism, sexism, homophobia, etc, I'm sick of gay rights, black rights, womens rights, etc. Stop the segregation, let's all just be human beings celebrating our human rights together. It don't matter jack what race or gender we are attracted to, just that we all live with the same rights, the same freedoms and the same desire to just get out with our lives as one. Let's stop censoring every tiny little thing that might offend dear old Doris and let our own common sense prevail.

In my world, there wouldn't even be any straights or gays or blacks or whites, only good people and bad people.

And the good people would all sleep with me :icon_mrgreen:

*Steps off Soapbox*

20-12-2007, 03:42 PM

Good post, I agree with what you have said.

I am ashamed by groups such as stonewall. Whilst they do some good work, they also bring a lot of negative publicity on 'my people'(!) by attacking anyone that dares say something that they believe is derogatory, when clearly that is in their view as the minority, and not a notion that those in the majority believe.

When I first joined the police, I never told people my sexuality, afterall it isnt anything to do with them. I have never hidden the fact I am gay, but nor do I feel the need to broadcast it. They didnt know for a long while, but one day it came out. They were ok about it, they were my friends. But I started to feel like a victim, and I shouldnt have. I became a victim because they were afraid of using certain words or phrases, ones which I had been part of in the past and never found offensive. I found myself becoming more and more segregated, and i feel this is due to groups like stonewall making people afraid of using words that we have all used for years without meaning to offend people.

I'm saddened that it has come to this, that as a gay man I am ashamed of the minority of do-gooders who think they speak for us all. It is definately not going to improve the situation.

postie

20-12-2007, 04:29 PM

I totally agree with that statement too and Q's as well

i stick by this motto always "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me"

Aled

20-12-2007, 05:29 PM

Although I totally agree with the sentiment, being in a public position means a lot of people talk to me about issues which makes it harder for me to be ignorant of issues and other people's rights.

We would ALL agree that what everyone wants is equality, but while there IS homophobia, prejudice, racism etc in the community removing the offensive words that are being used to discrimate removes some of their abilities to discriminate publicly.

Once discrimination is eliminated and these members of society who have a tough time simply for being in these sections of the community aren't discriminated against anymore - it would be wonderful for these words to be reintroduced and used in jest rather than offence.

As much as I love the sentiment without meaning to offend those who have commented on here - it's all very fine for a straight person or white person or able bodied person to say "can't we just say the words and not get offended" but it's not really down to them to judge when it is those words stop offending. It's when the communities feel they have achieved complete acceptance and are as equal as the next person that we can realistically look at doing it.

Aled

20-12-2007, 05:37 PM

I found myself becoming more and more segregated, and i feel this is due to groups like stonewall making people afraid of using words that we have all used for years without meaning to offend people.

I'm not a member of Stonewall and I don't agree with much they do. You may have preferred that your colleagues use that language with you but that's because you worked with a group of people who clearly respected you so you felt comfortable with the jest.

When you broadcast to the entire country, including groups of people who aren't as educated as your colleagues and use derogatory terms either to be offensive or may not be aware the hurt it causes certain people we have a responsibilty to do the right thing. Words my friends use with me when I'm not on the radio would be different to the ones on air for that very reason.

Adam

20-12-2007, 09:13 PM

I'm not offended by the word? And i'm gay.

bbb

20-12-2007, 09:27 PM

I'm not a member of Stonewall and I don't agree with much they do. You may have preferred that your colleagues use that language with you but that's because you worked with a group of people who clearly respected you so you felt comfortable with the jest.

When you broadcast to the entire country, including groups of people who aren't as educated as your colleagues and use derogatory terms either to be offensive or may not be aware the hurt it causes certain people we have a responsibilty to do the right thing. Words my friends use with me when I'm not on the radio would be different to the ones on air for that very reason.

i see ur point here while it may not ofend some it will with others and chris and the show already recives a lot of stick as there are assholes that call chris homopobic and we all know thats not the case but alot of people jst seem to think that and so they have to be careful not to give those people any fuel to use against the show
i dont find the wrod offence in the song but if someone was to call me it in a bar i problay would and like i said in my last post we all need to lighten up and not be so easily offend but thats very unlikely

i still find some words offecie such as retard/tard its ok with my mates calling me it as there jokeing people today just semm so overlay careing and are easy to offedn my self inculded

soz aled i jst had to say that

Mitchell

21-12-2007, 04:30 PM

As much as I love the sentiment without meaning to offend those who have commented on here - it's all very fine for a straight person or white person or able bodied person to say "can't we just say the words and not get offended" but it's not really down to them to judge when it is those words stop offending. It's when the communities feel they have achieved complete acceptance and are as equal as the next person that we can realistically look at doing it.
I appareciate this sentiment because I've never heard it expressed in that direction before. So in that respect, I appreciate where you are coming from. However, I don't think you have to achieve complete acceptance BEFORE you start changing perceptions and connotations. You're in the most perfect spot to make a big difference in society, Aled. If you go on air and say "hey, I'm a gay man and I think Radio One are fine to play the word in a song because it's a story and to be honest, anyone who does use it as a derogatory term is an idiot", you know how many people you're reaching? And if the entire team agree, you've got more weight for the audience, particularly the young kids listening, to stop and think "actually, you know what? They're right. Homophobia is stupid, and that word is just laughable" and the more that people see a gay man condoning it in a positive way on a large stage, the more it'll be accepted as a positive and something that can be used in jest so that the negative connotations are gone. And all the people left using it negatively will be publicly derided not just for being narrow-minded, but for being behind the times. The same people, I add, who usually complain about PC going too far.

The more you ban things, the more attention you bring to them and the more people want to use them and attack people with it.

As a producer, you OWE yourself to listen to The History Of Howard Stern on Sirius right now. I can hook you up with the audio if you want, but it covers a whole host of pro-gay stuff that Howard did that was absolutely groundbreaking at the time. Gay Dial-A-Date, etc. He's done so much for gay rights that it's almost untrue, and they use the f word daily. Every time a homophobe uses it negatively in the studio, Howard and everyone makes them look stupid in return. That's a powerful thing and his audience, in his peak, was incredible. You guys are the closest that we have in this country to Stern, and having that kind of influence. It's a shame you don't use it better.

Graeck

21-12-2007, 07:19 PM

Bleeping out a word is always ridiculous. Why? Because they made you THINK the word anyway. Why is it not okay for them to let you hear the word but okay for them to make you think it? It's just stupid and hypocritical.

Also, did anyone take into account that a member of The Pogues IS gay? In fact I've heard him say himself that Fairytale of New York is one of the best christmas songs ever written (written by other members of the band MacGowan and Finer). If the "offending" word isn't offending a gay member of the band who wrote the song and still plays the song live...that should kinda tell you something....