Russell Brand and Jonathon Ross-comedy genii or evil cnuts?

[Kate]

I know that neither Russell Brand nor Jonathon Ross broadcast on Radio 1, but since they do both have shows on one of its 'sister stations' I thought that this section of the forum would be as appropriate as any other to post this thread in.

Just in case anyone has somehow managed to miss hearing about the furore that seems to have sprung up around the aforementioned broadcasters and the answerphone message they left Andrew Sachs/Manuel in Fawlty Towers (despite the fact that it happened over a week ago now), then reading this article http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/oct/27/russell-brand-andrew-sachs should give you the jist of it and save me explaining the whole saga here.

I was wondering what the general consensus of the members of this forum is on the story; should both men be fined, sacked, thrown in prison and hung (which seems to be what quite a lot of posters on various forums would like to see happen to them), or were they just having a laugh and making entertaining radio and should be left alone?

I heard the show in question on Listen Again the day after it was broadcast and before there had been any publicity about it, and must admit that I was quite surprised when Jonathon blurted out 'He ****ed your grandaughter!' during the phonecall. But that was only because I knew the show had been pre-recorded and would have thought that bit would have been edited out before it was broadcast, and I was in no way offended by it.

Personally I found the whole show, including the 3 or 4 answerphone messages they left, very funny. And whilst I can see how Andrew Sachs himself may not have seen the funny side of it and may have every reason to be annoyed, I don't think anyone else really has much business complaining about it. If they don't like the kind of humour Russell and his various co-hosts use on their show then just don't listen (as Chris might say), then they needn't waste their time complaining about it.

I'd like to meet the BBC bigwig who cleared the show with that kind of content in it for broadcast, because he must be quite an interesting character. I'd also love to see him take over producing duties on Chris' show for a week or so. I have a feeling that the show would be well worth listening into that week!

[Mitchell]

The answer is somewhere in-between. Neither men can be considered a genius on any level, and their actions were irresponsible at worst. But it was entertaining and didn't harm anyone nearly half as much as the media are portraying. I like the controversy, so I'm for it.

[Ajayrious]

Likewise i think they are somewhere between the two, closer to comedy genii though definately.

With the matter in question, they definately did cross the line. But there job is to push that line as far as they can and occasionally things like this happen. Its what makes them good at what they do but it also makes them easy targets for the media.

[postie]

Maybe could of toned it down abit but obv mr sachs sense of humor was not the right person to play this joke on
Still it was bloody funny

[Yudster]

I love Jonathan Ross and I believe he is the best broadcaster on the BBC, radio and telly. However I personally can't bear prank humour. Prank phone calls are a number one turn off for me - I would have found this as un-entertaining as it is possible to be. Part of my reason for loathing them is that the victims of the prank are being used, without their agreement, and confusing and bewildering unsuspecting people who are just trying to get on with their lives is - for me - the absolute opposite of funny.

I'm not one of the people calling for Mr Brand and Mr Ross to be publicly flogged for this, but I do believe that the BBC should take this opportunity to ban prank phone calls from their programmes. I know that means that Scott Mills will have to actually find some funny material to fill his show, which may be beyond him, but its a small price to pay.

[s4b]

I don't like Russell Brand but I do like Jonathan Ross, not sure he's a genius but he is very funny. Can I please second Yuds' request about the whole prank phone call thing, I hate it!

[Kate]

I also hate prank phonecalls, but they don't really come into this story because it wasn't as if JR and RB called up Andrew Sachs with the intention of making a prank call.

They called him in order to have a pre-arranged interview with him, and it was only when he failed to answer his phone and they started garbling into his answering machine that everything started to get a bit out of hand. If he'd just answered the phone in the first place I doubt there'd be a story now. A link to a transcript of the calls in case anyone is interested, http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/tv_and_radio/article5023135.ece

I can't believe how much attention this whole thing is getting-it was the LEAD headline on ITV news last night and I think may have been on the BBC news too. Surely there are a hell of a lot more important issues happening in the world at the moment.

[jet]

I can't stand jonathan ross and prant phone calls.

[Andrew80]

have to say -- I think its blown out of proportion.

[Yudster]

Depends on your perspective. In what way is it ok for anyone, BBC employee or not, to leave obscene messages on an old age pensioner's phone? If you or I did that we might properly expect to be charged with an offense, and prosecuted. Mr Sachs hasn't gone down this route, he's left it to the BBC - but bearing in mind that it is an offence, what are they going to do? They have to be seen to be taking it seriously, because in other circumstances it might well be the police who were investigating. I think Mr Ross and Mr Brand have reason to be worried.

[element231]

only 2 people reported it on the days, i think that all the press got more people to report it just to make it a big scene

[Yudster]

I completely agree, the public reaction has been predictable and a bit silly. But the BBC will be specifically responding to the complaint made by Mr Sachs, which is a totally valid and legitimate one.

[Q]

Totally over reaction. Now both have been suspended.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7696714.stm

[Kate]

I'm just watching this on the BBC news now. It really has turned into a farce, such a complete over reaction!

[Aled]

Russell Brand has the same audience for his radio show as The Surgery does. 15,000+ complaints - that's a high percentage rate for the size of it's audience. Obiously they all heard it to be so offended by it.

[Yudster]

Bearing in mind that there is a very real possibility it seems that the matter might now be given to the police to deal with, I hardly think that suspension - temporary, and probably on full pay - can be regarded as an over reaction. If the BBC did anything less, they would be seen to be trivialising a potential police matter. how can that be the right thing to do?

I'm not baying for their blood or anything, but if Mr Brand and Mr Ross would prefer the whole thing to be being dealt with by the police, I think it could be a hell of a lot worse.

[Adam]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4a/Manuel_Waiter.jpg

¿qué?

[Kate]

Now Russell has quit the BBC, says he won't be working for them anymore. The madness shows no signs of ending yet.

[Yudster]

I heard part of the statement he made - he said that he did the show to make people happy and to make them laugh, and if he wasn't doing that any more, he should stop. Now if anything in this whole thing is an over-reaction its that - what about maybe continuing to make people happy by doing the show as before but without crossing that line again? He never did it before, is he saying that he was planning to continue with stuff like that?

I hope Mr Ross takes a less egotistical line and returns to Radio 2 and the BBC soon.

[Lizzie]

I think Russell is doing a good job of throwing his toys out of his pram by quitting the BBC. Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.

I think the whole thing has turned into a ridiculous farce, but at least it has stopped people talking about this bloody recession for a little while. You have to be grateful for that!!

[Gareth]

I don't think what they did was particularly funny, but I find it interesting that the granddaughter is saying how shocked and upset she is to certain newspapers, whereas I'd have thought that she would actually be pleased with the publicity, since she's maybe not the kind of girl the Daily Mail are portraying her as *...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/oct/30/russell-brand-ross-baillie-sachs

Also, read somewhere that she'd taken on Max Clifford as a publicist.... not sure if that's true, but it would certainly add another angle to the story.


(* not that what she does for a job means that she deserves to be talked about in this way on air... just that maybe it puts the story into another context)

[Yudster]

......... cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Thats the one, I was trying to think of the phrase my old granny used to use for that kind of behaviour because I knew it would be perfect, but it just wouldn't come to me!

I don't think what they did was particularly funny, but I find it interesting that the granddaughter is saying how shocked and upset she is to certain newspapers, whereas I'd have thought that she would actually be pleased with the publicity, since she's maybe not the kind of girl the Daily Mail are portraying her as *...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008...-baillie-sachs

Also, read somewhere that she'd taken on Max Clifford as a publicist.... not sure if that's true, but it would certainly add another angle to the story.


(* not that what she does for a job means that she deserves to be talked about in this way on air... just that maybe it puts the story into another context)

But its not about her is it? The joke/offence (delete as applicable) wasn't perpetrated on her, so she shouldn't really be getting in the middle of it - and yes, I'm sure the reason that she IS in the middle of it is that this is probably the best publicity she will ever get.

[Kate]

I heard part of the statement he made

I liked the fact that he recorded it whilst stood in front of a photo of Stalin. It made me laugh, as did this. http://www.greem.co.uk/pics/daily_mail_ted.jpg

[postie]

a fuss over nothing

[Yudster]

I understand why they've done it, given what the legal penalties for doing something like this could be, but I can't help feeling that three months is a lot.

[postie]

it is alot and stupid

[angeleyes71]

the whole thing is just pathetic, totally agree with what noel gallagher had to say !!lot of fuss stirred up by the media.. and still people think jonathan should have been sacked?? come off it as if the beeb are going to get rid of one of their top money spinners.. theyd be idiots if they did! will be glad when it all dies down again cus am sick of hearing bout it now!

[Yudster]

I have shamelessly stolen this from a poster on another forum, but this would be the most appropriate punishment for all concerned -

"This, Jonathan Ross. This, Russell Brand. This, slap on head".

Thanks to Munki Bhoy, cm.net

[Ajayrious]

the whole thing is just pathetic, totally agree with what noel gallagher had to say !!lot of fuss stirred up by the media.. and still people think jonathan should have been sacked?? come off it as if the beeb are going to get rid of one of their top money spinners.. theyd be idiots if they did! will be glad when it all dies down again cus am sick of hearing bout it now!

Yeah i agree too, the person who seems to have been forgotten in all this is the victim. Andrew Sachs seemed perfectly willing to put the matter behind him after he received an apology. And now its become less about him and more about people who have found a reason to kick the BBC and Jonathan Ross when they are down.

The one thing i love is that every negative comment on the BBC site, mentions money. Thats all people care about. How much Jonathan Ross earns. Andrew Sachs appears in very few posts, Russell Brand even seems to have been mainly forgotten. Its just people ranting about the license fee, and how much of it (probably 1p if that, per person) goes to Mr Ross

[Adam]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/adammlynch/qMctNRYaRnpzTaIomRXuICSjqUjoKWDSXvv.jpg

[Kate]

I've been listening to different discussions about this story on various stations today and also to The Guardian podcast, in order to get some more intelligent information and viewpoints on the fiasco than that which seems to be available in the newspapers or on the mainstream news.

And I must say that doing so has put a slightly different spin on it for me, although overall I do still think that Russell shouldn't have resigned and Jonathan shouldn't have been suspended.

According to Paul Gambaccini on 5 live this morning Russell Brand had gone through several producers during the relatively short time he'd been doing his Radio 2 show. Every time one said 'no' to him he got them taken off his show and got a new one in, and the reason he was able to do this was because the now ex-Controller of Radio 2 regarded Russell as her 'pet' and consistently backed him up. Unsurprisingly this resulted in some people who worked at R2 not being too fond of Brand.

This eventually lead to his own production company taking over the production of the show in May this year, instead of it being a BBC in-house production as it was previous to that. This meant the poor producer who was in the studio with him and Jonathan was in effect employed by Russell. So there was a slim-to-none chance that he was ever going to say 'no' to either the person who was employing him or to a massive BBC star like Ross. Obviously he had to refer the matter up the chain of command, but as we all now know somehow that went slightly wrong.

Gambaccini made many other interesting (to me anyhow) comments about the whole subject, including the fact that BBC producers don't become producers having worked for the organisation 'man and boy' anymore, but are just brought in and out on 3/4 monthly contracts and this means that they don't have the same understanding of the core values that should be upheld by the BBC in the way those that came up through the system in the 'man and boy' route did.

I would go on and mention some of his other points and other comments I heard elsewhere today, but I feel I've rambled on enough already. You could listen to the whole interview here http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00f4xn7/b00f4xbk/5_live_Breakfast_31102008/ (at about 2 hours 10 minutes in) if you felt so inclined.

The only thing I'd add is that I'm very annoyed that JR won't be presenting the British Comedy Awards, which he always does a brilliant job on, and that the BBC don't seem to have any plans to show the episode of NMTB which was supposed to go out last night and which featured Russell, who, by all accounts, was on top form. And of course I'll miss 'Friday Night...' too. I don't think anyone, whether they be Ross and Brand haters or fans, has got anything positive out of this whole sorry saga.

[Yudster]

I heard that Gambaccini thing - it certainly throws a new light on the tragic "sacrifice" of Lesley Douglas. Seems more like she was absolutely right to shoulder the full responsibility. If she'd done her job properly then Russell Brand would have either been doing his show properly, or have thrown his toys out of the pram and walked a long time ago - either of which would be preferable to what actually happened.

[angeleyes71]

papers annoyed me this morning havin a pop at jonathan for having a big halloween bash. for heavens sakes he has these parties every year , whats the news an importance about that? more moaning bout his salary? there are plenty of over payed wasters out there isnt it about time they picked on them instead this has got very old very fast!

[Andrew80]

Do you think Jonathon Ross will be back on the BBC? or has his reputation suffered too much?

[postie]

i hope he defects to the other channels then see where the BBC be would be without him

[angeleyes71]

i think jonathan is tough enough to weather this, there are lesser out there that have weathered storms such as angus deayton who has slowly crept back onto our screens so i dont see how he wouldnt bounce back!

[Yudster]

I hope Jonathan Ross is back with a bang much quicker than Deayton was.

And why does getting suspended from his job last week mean that he can't have a party? What the hell has that got to do with anything? People should REALLY stop buying these crap-awful newspapers - put the arses out of business.

[angeleyes71]

I hope Jonathan Ross is back with a bang much quicker than Deayton was.

And why does getting suspended from his job last week mean that he can't have a party? What the hell has that got to do with anything? People should REALLY stop buying these crap-awful newspapers - put the arses out of business.

totally agree there, i only read it cus i work in a news agents and have to put the papers together at the weekend!!

[Gareth]

Crap.... looks like Chris has been dragged into this now!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7741322.stm

Mr Tait said the offence of the original broadcast was compounded by Russell Brand's appearance on Chris Moyles's Radio 1 show on 21 October, when the pair talked about the incident.

He said this discussion, in itself, was also in breach of editorial guidelines in respect of privacy, offence and the fact it was broadcast at a time when children were likely to be listening.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/nov/21/russell-brand-jonathan-ross

The trust also asked BBC management to investigate comments that Brand made on Moyles's show about dancer Georgina Baillie, who became embroiled in the Sachsgate affair after Ross and Brand left lewd messages about her on her grandfather Andrew Sachs' answerphone.

Moyles and Brand had a conversation live on Radio 1 at 8.23am on October 21, three days after the offensive messages were broadcast on Radio 2 - but before the Sachsgate affair had blown up into a major crisis for the BBC.

Brand told Moyles he had met Baillie and said he had "met her brains out".

BBC trustee Richard Tait said today that the trust had taken the view that the comment was referring to Baillie's private life.

The trust said it was down to BBC management to decide if any further sanctions were necessary over this incident.

[postie]

I think that will be the end of it tbh

[sinister]

I can't stand either of them but it's a bit of a mountain out of a mole hill. I expect Sachs already knew Brand was doing his granddaughter, the satanic slut that she is.

[Scott]

russell brand is funny i like him and his film and ponder land series. Johanthan Ross? who the fcuks he? lol (scarcastic)