A question about reputations...

[Mitchell]

I'm probably going to end up pretty hated on this site with all my questions and critique, but screw it :teeth:

Just wondering what the deal is with the Rep points here. I understand what they are and what they do (I've ran several vB forums over the years), but are they being expected the be the "be all and end all" of popularity here? Well, not so much popularity as just who we see as the best of the crop here on the site. Are we all expected to use it?

I ask because I haven't seen much of it explained here on the forum (unless I'm missing a very important thread - in which case, ignore me) and personally, I never use rep points to rep good posts. I've always ran on the policy that a good poster will always shine through on their own merits and that you'll become synonymous with their name and style of writing. Similarly, there has to be a concern of how a "good post" is defined. Some people may rep someone who purely says "Moyles show was great today" and ignore a fantastically worded and well-presented opinion post just because it takes a lot of words and reasoning to say what simply reads as "The show sucked" - a good post getting no respect purely because it dares to disagree with public opinion. And what about a poster who joins a year from now and blows every single person here away with how amazing they are. Why should they have to wait so long to be heralded with "inferior" posters just because he starts with 0 rep whilst we're all 200 points ahead and rolling.

Is it really to be seen as such an important factor on the site? Or is it purely for show? As in... as a bit of incentive to get on that little list on the left hand site. I genuinely don't understand how this is expected to work in the long-term plan of the site/community. So really, I'm just looking for clarity here. I'm not nitpicking, just making sure that I get what is expected of me and us here, because right now I'm a little confused over it.

Thanks.

[Riz]

Im not quite sure myself, but i think its an incentive to make your posts more about quality, rather than having loads and loads of poor posts, yet you appear to be elite because your post count is high.

The thing im confused about is, though, that who will start the ball rolling? No one wants to award 'reputation' to anyone else, because that means they will be above them.

[Blinkie]

Exactly what i was thinking - just seems a bit of an odd way of sorting out the random posters from the people that put the effort in. I can't see us all rep'ing each others posts... can you?

[gbm]

The thing im confused about is, though, that who will start the ball rolling? No one wants to award 'reputation' to anyone else, because that means they will be above them.

I've already been giving ratings and reputation, I am happy with what I achieved on ahj so cant be bothered now, I shall post for fun and not for the count.

[postie]

Good question and ive added to your reputation for it too
i suppose it just weeds out the junk posts and promotes people to post better

but i will be honest i will probably forget about the rep thing anyway in time i just like replying to threads or making new ones up
:)

[Ali]

Good question and ive added to your reputation for it too
i suppose it just weeds out the junk posts and promotes people to post better

but i will be honest i will probably forget about the rep thing anyway in time i just like replying to threads or making new ones up
:)
I feel the same way now, despite what some people on the forum may say about me. ;)

[gbm]

I feel the same way now, despite what some people on the forum may say about me. ;)

Once a postwhore always a postwhore

just joking ali, I think that we will reflect our more mature side on here :)

[Q]

I'm trying desperately to remain nice, but its so hard. So far so good though! :D

[Aled]

If you hit a certian minus reputation you get banned off the site :)

[Blinkie]

do we ever know what our reps are?

[Q]

Can mods keep an eye out on reps? I feel that this system can easily be abused with people repeatedly giving bad rep without justification, or because of differing views. I'm not suggesting that is going to happen by the way, everyone on here is terribly nice ;)

[Lizzie]

everyone on here is terribly nice ;)

Speak for yourself. I'm a bitch :bite:

[gbm]

Speak for yourself. I'm a bitch :bite:
A bitch that bites apparently! ;)

[Nic]

i'm not sure whether i'd rather have lizzie bite me or be around riz with a knife... :icon_eek:

[Nina Cupcake]

I might be very dumb, but how the hell do you add to people's reputation? (Other than rating whole threads)

[Console]

There should be a picture of some scales in the title bar of each post, which is the reputation button. Click on that, and it should be fairly straight forward from there.

[Nina Cupcake]

Wow, thanks, I feel really stupid now :rolleyes:

[Console]

No need to feel stupid, vB hardly makes it obvious.

[Aimee]

i wanna know who gave me a rep so i can thank them lol :) does it remain private?

[Blinkie]

It's ok, i never knew either!

[Console]

As far as I'm aware, yes it does remain private, although the giver can choose to leave their name in the comment, which you can see in your userCP.

[Aimee]

oh right cool, i didnt get a name but whoever it was thanks:) lol

[bbb]

i was worndeing wat that was as someone gave me rep dint even know wat it was till after reading this

[postie]

I'm still an unknown quantity at this point

[Ellie]

What about the long time readers, few time posters?

Recently I've been reading much much more than I've been posting. I've made a few posts here and there but nothing compared to when I first joined the 'old' forum... I'm just too busy now.

To be honest I'm not entirely liking the whole reputation idea. Apart from the fact that I feel I'm going to end up with a bad one due to the lack of posts that I make I just don't think it's fair on people. There will be bias involved even if we are trying for it not to be there.

As the original post said people learn who the best posters are when they spend time on forums and learn who to respect. For example when I first joined the old forum I quickly noted that Q & Kate were 2 people on the forum who contributed alot and Kate especially with some very thoughtful and advanced things (I never did beat her on a long post!!).

I think it's a case of learning people rather than those just coming on the board, looking at the side and seeing 'Oh (currently) Postie is the best person on this board'.

Thats just an opinion though. I'm still getting used to the new format, it's probably going to take me a while to get used to it. But I think for now I'll keep reading more than posting (I do read every post even if I don't get chance to post on them!)

[Q]

I believe, and im sure Console will correct me if im wrong, but the 'top users' section is currently organised by post count, rather than reputation :)

[Console]

That is correct Q, although it will be changing once peoples reputation begins to accumulate.

To be honest I'm not entirely liking the whole reputation idea. Apart from the fact that I feel I'm going to end up with a bad one due to the lack of posts that I make I just don't think it's fair on people. There will be bias involved even if we are trying for it not to be there.

You won't get a bad reputation by not posting a lot, it just probably won't be as high as other peoples.

The idea behind the reputation is to rate people according to the quality of their posts as opposed to the quantity, so even if someone does post sporadically, they can still achieve a high reputation by making interesting, informative, insightful or funny posts.

If you can think of a better way of ranking users, then please tell us, we'll be glad to hear it, and it'll probably earn you a lot of reputation points as well.

[gbm]

However I'm struck by the problem of finding a persons posts interesting but needing to 'spread the love a bit more before posting it to X again'

How about we rank users by the amount they talk in the shoutbox? (can I have some rep for that? - please :D)

[Blinkie]

I'm still an unknown quantity! Don't think i have had any rep points :( gee whats a girl gotta do round here to get a reputation ;) !!!

[Aled]

I'm still a big a fan of this!

You won't get a bad reputation for not posting many, but the stars that contribute a lot of quality stuff will rise to the top - which is much better than a forum filled with waste threads purely designed to get a high posting count.

I'm on hols next week so expect a lot of my attention to be spent on the site resulting in a few changes.

[Riz]

Unless people give reputation *every* time they see a 'quality' post, then i cant see how it will work aswell as hoped...

I dont see regulars giving out reputation to newbies.

[Kate]

I already have my own scale of how highly or lowly I rate all the regular posters in my head, so I can't see myself paying any attention to the new system.

Also, different people will have different criteria for rating posts/threads 'good' or 'bad'. For example someone who's into gaming might think a particular post in that section is great, where as someone who has no interest in computer games would consider the same post dull and boring.

[Console]

That is a point, but overall the ratings will reflect the likes and dislikes the board as a whole; it democracy, it's not the best system, it's just the best we've got.

[postie]

Kates is red does that mean she has been rated badly

maybe instead of the scales a good or bad sign to help people understand it a bit more or know where to rate people

[Kate]

Kates is red does that mean she has been rated badly

Apparently I have had some 'shameless behaviour' in the past. I'm starting to like this whole idea more now, it could be quite entertaining to see how bad of a reputation you can earn.

[bbb]

seems like a good idaer im sure if u get a rather bad rep u get banned from site or posting or something but wat id u get a relly good rep?

[postie]

lol it's like starwars and Kate has defected to the dark side :077:

[Q]

Kate was ALWAYS on the darkside!

[Kate]

I haven't defected to the darkside, I was always there.

[Q]

I haven't defected to the darkside, I was always there.

Oi, you copycat!

[bbb]

it will be intesting to see how people rate and if they type reasons it lest then u can try to improve by not makeing the same mistake twice and a good side is u can never find out who gives u rep as far as i know

[bbb]

soz to be a bit dumb and if its alredy been asked ?
what way does the rep work eg say uve been given one good and one bad does theb bad rep netruiles the good one eg

(good rep) Things that made you... 26-09-2007 11:22 PM Quite right BBB
(bad rep) Things that made you... 26-09-2007 07:44 PM Spelling is awful. Posts are illegible.
(good) ant and decs takeway 13-09-2007 11:10 PM Spellings alot better! Well done!

to me its rather confuseing and how much rep can u give out in a dy cuse i wnet to give some rep and comes up need to speard some rep around even know im perry sure ive gave rep good and bad to nearly everyone whos posted something that ive found wroth giveing rep to

cheers

[Mitchell]

If you can think of a better way of ranking users, then please tell us, we'll be glad to hear it, and it'll probably earn you a lot of reputation points as well.
Why do we have to rank users and lead the forum down the road of elitism? Why can't we just not rank the users, keep everyone on a level playing field so that Average "100-posts" Joe won't be unfairly judged by new people as being better or more respected than Johnny "10-posts" Generic, just because one has had more opportunity to boost their reputation points than the other, and then everyone will be happy and we have a system that people will actually use and that will be fair on all?

[Console]

Why do we have to rank users and lead the forum down the road of elitism?

We don't, but as it's extremely unlikely to cause any 'elitism' then I don't really see a reason not to.

Why can't we just not rank the users, keep everyone on a level playing field so that Average "100-posts" Joe won't be unfairly judged by new people as being better or more respected than Johnny "10-posts" Generic, just because one has had more opportunity to boost their reputation points than the other, and then everyone will be happy and we have a system that people will actually use and that will be fair on all?

Sorry, what 'system' are you proposing? It's sounds like your suggesting 'no system' which, well, isn't a system. Also, I don't think people generally care enough to get upset about having a low post count or low reputation points, and if they did then they could just post more good posts; it's not exactly like the people that post more good posts are getting anything other than a superficial title anyway.

[Blinkie]

you can't knock a 'no system'!

[Console]

As some of you may have noticed, the 'Top Users' section on the left has been updated to used the reputation as the main system of ordering. Most of you have also been here long enough and have enough posts for the rep you give to really start mattering, so when you see a post that makes you laugh, or makes you think, or one that you think deserves some recognition, please give the user rep and encourage more good posts.

Of course, if you come across a post you find rude, or offensive then you can give negative reputation, which will hopefully make long-time users steer clear of being offensive. As a word of caution, some of the admins don't look to kindly of people starting 'game threads', so do so at your own peril.

[postie]

i still don't think the rep thing really works but i will go with whatever is suggested

[Blinkie]

tut tut you can't beat a good game while waiting for another thread to catch up with you

[bbb]

i like the whole rep thing but no one answeard my question on how it wroks and now i have one more questtion to add to that

if i give rep to one person how much rep to i need to speard around/ give to others before being able to give that person rep agian .

theres been afew posts i would lke to give rep to but cant as ive already gave that person rep a while ago

forgive me for being dumb cheers

[Console]

You did have to give 20 other users reputation before giving it to the same person again, but I've reduced this to 5, as 20 was a bit unreasonable with the current number of active users we have.

[bbb]

thanks i was jst a bit confused with that part and im guesing that if you get one good rep and one bad rep the bad rep then neautrlies the good one?

thanks so much for letting me know about the amount of times now i jst have to find some wrothy posts^_^

[Console]

thanks i was jst a bit confused with that part and im guesing that if you get one good rep and one bad rep the bad rep then neautrlies the good one?

That's essentially true, but the amount of 'rep' points a person gives changes when their own points reach certain levels; so if one person were to give you positive rep, and another negative rep, then your rep may increase overall if the first person had a higher rep than the second.

[Aled]

Why do we have to rank users and lead the forum down the road of elitism? Why can't we just not rank the users, keep everyone on a level playing field

The only thing the system does is place people in a fair order on the Top Users list.

If we chose "no system" then it'd be very difficult to fairly choose who would go on the list. There are 186 active users (apparently) whereas room for 10 - 15 on the Top users.

Number of posts encourages junk threads. Alphabetical encourages junk names. Moderator choosing encourages favouritism. This system genuinely feels fair.

[Blinkie]

I'm not fussed about the 'top 10/15' i'm just here because i want to be part of this little online community as a point of discussion and fun. I do feel though that ranking people is causing an elite group which leaves the rest of us feeling slightly left out.

Or just ignore me, im having a bad night and moaning about everything :(

[Aled]

I'm not fussed about the 'top 10/15' i'm just here because i want to be part of this little online community as a point of discussion and fun. I do feel though that ranking people is causing an elite group which leaves the rest of us feeling slightly left out.

Or just ignore me, im having a bad night and moaning about everything :(

Then NONE of this conversation should bother you. This is only about getting in the Top 15 on the left. If you're not fussed about being in there - why does it matter what system is chosen? There's nothing elite about being in the Top User list on the left.

[Blinkie]

hee hee sorry Aled, as i put in the other post, im just whining today... ignore me, i'll be fine after thursday!!!

[bbb]

That's essentially true, but the amount of 'rep' points a person gives changes when their own points reach certain levels; so if one person were to give you positive rep, and another negative rep, then your rep may increase overall if the first person had a higher rep than the second.

thanks alot its cleard alot of my confusion up and i agrre its nice to have a fair system :icon_surprised:

[PinkTribble]

If you hit a certian minus reputation you get banned off the site :)

But Aled, what if, like some people, you're getting bad rep purely based on someone's petty attitude towards bad spelling and you end up with that 'certain minus reputation' ??

[postie]

I'm sure if its down to a persons disability they wont be banned
i think the bad reps would be for either spamming or abuse
agreed spelling is a bit petty but i can see it could annoy someone to a certain degree if the errors are way too much and illegible too read
I've never rep bad to anyone but my nature is always to give good and not bad I'm too nice to do that

[PinkTribble]

I'm hugely pedantic about spelling, but I'm not about to give anyone bad rep for it, what's the point?

I'm nice too, except when I'm irritated and feel like ranting, but I guess people will get to know that soon enough!

[bbb]

hey all soz to bug gain about rep but ive been thinking about a way that it could impove it tho saying that it could make things worse

i was wondering if theres away for us to see all the rep we have recived and not just recnet rep and if we could also see all the rep we have gave out good and bad im not sure if anyone else has this porblem but i find it hard to keep tarck the ammount of rep i have handed out and recived as well but the down side could be that then people will only rep the same people over and over

[tamba]

I do not even know where to start looking for these rep thing !!

[bbb]

its in the user cp but it only shows recnet rep recived and not all

[tamba]

its in the user cp but it only shows recnet rep recived and not all

Cheer's mate. Do not think I will understand it.... EVER !!!!!

[bbb]

yw and dont worry i still dont fully understand it

[Mitchell]

There's nothing elite about being in the Top User list on the left.
I strongly disagree. When a new user comes on the site, they'll see only the names on the left and if they're "top users", then they're the ones that will be seen in a far better light than anyone else, judged by a flawed system that assumes all forum members use the system (they don't) and judge by the same criteria (they don't).

I'd hate this site to turn into a ChrisMoyles.net-esque clique (albeit a positive one), but I can see it happening. What incentive is there for a newbie to join long-term if the top users section is so predominant on the site and they have so little chance to get on there if everyone in that list continues to post and get lots of rep for others?

Far be it for me to tell you how to run your own site, but I just don't see the benefit of the rep system at all.

[Console]

IWhat incentive is there for a newbie to join long-term if the top users section is so predominant on the site and they have so little chance to get on there if everyone in that list continues to post and get lots of rep for others?

Surely it would be the same incentive as they would have if the 'Top Users' section wasn't there; to post on Aled's site and join in with the community. All the 'Top Users' feature is trying to do is reward people for posting good posts, and not pointless posts (like the 'Word Association Game'). I really don't think people will be bothered about not being in the list that much that it would stop them posting.

[Mitchell]

But again, s'where subjectivity comes into play. That's where I find the flaw.I know I may be getting too far into what is essentially just a bit of fun, but since Aled seemed so excited and gung ho about it, I figure it warrants discussion - what if a month down the line, the genuinely good posters stop repping, and all the genuinely "meh" posters start repping each other? Has the reward system worked? And what if all the forum members give negative rep to a poster for a post that Aled himself actually really liked? Does he overrule the majority opinion and call foul?

I personally liked this idea in the other thread:
this is why I feel a poster of the week/month may work better than a league table system as a way of encouraging good posts.
Credit to whoever wrote that. Terrier or someone (I apologise to whoever you are for not remembering your name off-hand). I'm just noticing that there's obviously people here not repping, not taking the repping seriously if they do, not understanding how it works, etc. Maybe they're the only ones speaking up, I don't know. How do YOU think it's going so far?

[Console]

what if a month down the line, the genuinely good posters stop repping, and all the genuinely "meh" posters start repping each other?

Ignoring the low probability of this scenario, what would happen is the 'meh' posters would eventually be moved to the top of the list.

Has the reward system worked?

Subjectively, yes, although it's not really a reward system as much as it is a recognition system.

And what if all the forum members give negative rep to a poster for a post that Aled himself actually really liked? Does he overrule the majority opinion and call foul?

No, there's no overruling. The only time we'll edit reputation is if someone has mistakingly given rep and they ask us to undo it.

I personally liked this idea in the other thread:
this is why I feel a poster of the week/month may work better than a league table system as a way of encouraging good posts.

While this does allow new posters to get to the top of the list (deservedly or not), it would 'punish' the good posters that don't post a lot. You're above (unlikely) scenario still applies as well. It's all swings and round-abouts, there are many possible ways to produce a list of 'Top Posters' and we've chosen to use the reputation system as it is the most democratic way of doing it, and decided to do it over all time as it is by far the easiest way of doing it and it shows the boards overall best posters (as opposed to just the best posters of the week).

[Mitchell]

Can't really argue with any of that. I stand conceded.

[Console]

You have raised some good points though, the system isn't perfect, so I will offer a sort of compromise. Currently, the list is ordered by reputation, and where the reputation is the same the person with fewer posts is higher (so as to 'reward' a greater concentration of good posts). If anyone can come up with a fairer way to sort the list then I will very probably implement it. The variables you have to play with are the number of days the person has been a member of the site (to 2 d.p.), the number of posts a person has posted and the reputation number. I'm essentially looking for a formula that will that will give a fair score to each user. You can use and weight the variables however you see fit, but I would appreciate an explanation as to why you used or weighted the variables in the way you have. I do realise that there's not many mathematically minded people out there, so if someone would be able to come up with the basic idea (without a formula) then I will attempt to put together a formula for it

[Ali]

You have raised some good points though, the system isn't perfect, so I will offer a sort of compromise. Currently, the list is ordered by reputation, and where the reputation is the same the person with fewer posts is higher (so as to 'reward' a greater concentration of good posts). If anyone can come up with a fairer way to sort the list then I will very probably implement it. The variables you have to play with are the number of days the person has been a member of the site (to 2 d.p.), the number of posts a person has posted and the reputation number. I'm essentially looking for a formula that will that will give a fair score to each user. You can use and weight the variables however you see fit, but I would appreciate an explanation as to why you used or weighted the variables in the way you have. I do realise that there's not many mathematically minded people out there, so if someone would be able to come up with the basic idea (without a formula) then I will attempt to put together a formula for it

I would do that for you, but i'm currently working on how to power a car from laughter. Maybe another form genius like myself could help you? :)

[gbm]

I would do that for you, but i'm currently working on how to power a car from laughter. Maybe another form genius like myself could help you? :)

Sorry, I'm busy too - working on the whole bottling hydrogen conundrum at the moment, oh and I'm also working on how to make the earth rotate the other way but I dont see that one as a full time thing, more of a hobby.

[Kate]

I strongly disagree. When a new user comes on the site, they'll see only the names on the left and if they're "top users", then they're the ones that will be seen in a far better light than anyone else, judged by a flawed system that assumes all forum members use the system (they don't) and judge by the same criteria (they don't).

I don't think you need to worry too much about not being/getting on the top users list. I for one can easily tell from your posts (judging by their content, structure, spelling and punctuation) that you're someone who is a good contributor to the forum, and I'm sure that plenty of others can see the same thing.

As I've said before, in my eyes the list is completely irrelevant and doesn't really tell us anything. So it's inconsequential where people are on it, if they're on it, or what formula is used to create it. Maybe a lot of people think otherwise, but that's my view anyhow.

[bbb]

I don't think you need to worry too much about not being/getting on the top users list. I for one can easily tell from your posts (judging by their content, structure, spelling and punctuation) that you're someone who is a good contributor to the forum, and I'm sure that plenty of others can see the same thing.
i aggre with kate here ur posts are rather good to read and u often raise some good points as for spelling i dont jugde people by spelling or gammer as no one is perfect exsept for kate and Q

[PinkTribble]

hey all soz to bug gain about rep but ive been thinking about a way that it could impove it tho saying that it could make things worse

i was wondering if theres away for us to see all the rep we have recived and not just recnet rep and if we could also see all the rep we have gave out good and bad im not sure if anyone else has this porblem but i find it hard to keep tarck the ammount of rep i have handed out and recived as well but the down side could be that then people will only rep the same people over and over


Sounds like a plan. People could then check their percieved behaviour and modify, if they see fit, or, if they are recieving good comments, they can bask in the joy of being liked!

Similarly, people can see what they themselves have written as reasons for giving rep, either good or bad. Some may feel good about themselves for being kind and genorous. Some may see that it is they with the problems, not the person/s they may be giving bad rep to!

Good for the Betterment of Mankind, perhaps?

I'd like to make it into the Top 15, but I don't

a) get here often enough to make a decent amount of posts to earn the required good rep

b) think I'm likely to get much good rep anyway, since I'm either rather bland, or a bit nuts, depending on my mood! :icon_lol:

[bbb]

wow guys ty very much for makeing a way for use to see all the rep we have recived brill job must of took u ages to do so thanks very much for spending ur free time doing this love u guys

[Console]

Actually, I just found the option for the maximum to display and upped it to 15, so it won't show all of them, but it will show a lot (well, it will show 15).

[PinkTribble]

Nice one Console. :001:

Oh gosh, I just realized I'm in the top 15! :blush: